Dr. Kasimow: I haven't spoken about the great diversity, you know, we know great diversity among religions, but there's great diversity within every religious traditions. But even if we're Orthodox Jews, or Muslims, who believe that every word and our sacred text is the word of God. Heschel of course believed that sacred texts are more of a partnership between the human and the divine, and that was problematic for many Orthodox Jews, but even if we believe that every word is actually the word of God, we still have a brain and we have to interpret our text.
So, the most important work in Judaism, I'd say, is Midrash, is interpretation. So we constantly have to interpret our text that's consistent with the best, in our tradition, which teaches love for God and love for human beings. You can't say, I love God, but I don't love human beings. Loving human beings is loving God. And I don't know whether I'm actually responding directly to your question, I hope so, in some ways, so they have to, they first have to master you know, learn their own tradition, as much as that is possible. And then, as I said, there are different paths that young people can take. The one thing they can't do, they must be open. They must be able to see the monstrosity of inequality, and the most important thing is the idea of indifference.
We can’t be indifferent when we see someone harming another human being, because from Herschel's perspective, when we cause pain to another human being, especially for religious people, if we cause pain to another human being, we're also causing pain to God. God is affected by everything we do, that we're in a partnership with God, and that God needs our help to perfect the world. I don't know if that gives you some help to that question.
David Krueger: Please do continue to leave your questions and comments in the chat. I'm just curious, Harold, about your thoughts on young people, and the younger generation today, as far as the Holocaust, practical thoughts on how, you know, we can continue to educate, to bring young people into the conversation. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Dr. Kasimow: So you know that Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel was a major influence in my life, and he had a very interesting interview with Kyle Stern in 1972, just a few weeks before he died, and Kyle Stern asked him if he had a message for young people. And he told young people that no matter how difficult the situation is, no matter how much suffering there is in the world, the one thing we can't do is give up hope.
We always have to do what we can to work on ourselves [haha]. To make a life a work of art and do what we can even if it’s to say good morning to the person next to you. Every moment of our life could make a difference in the life of other human beings. Every action that we do, affects human beings. And I was a young person once, and I know how many of my teachers and my students, I was still fairly young when I began to teach how, you know, seeing love and compassion that human beings have, every little action can make a difference in a person's life. And as a Holocaust survivor, I needed a great deal of healing and I was very fortunate that I've met many people in my life, and have many friends, who have helped me. And the process continues [haha].
David Krueger: We’re drawing quickly to our time to close, but just to note that Harold's book is really far reaching and covers a number of different topics of engaging in thoughts about critical thinking about the Holocaust, engaging across religious difference, engaging multiple different religious traditions. So there are a lot of angles, to go with that book, and I would suspect it could be a useful text, even in a college classroom, for stimulating conversation, and maybe a companion text for a world religions’ class, in some type of way. I'm just curious if there are some Temple University students here, maybe other college students, are there any questions from students that are here, gathered today?
Unknown Speaker: I do have a question.
David Krueger: Yes, please. Naomi?
Unknown Speaker: She had to step out, I'm her brother. I was interested. She was telling me about the the talk and I was really interested coming on.
Well, first off, I want to say thank you, sir, for coming on today. I'm happy to speak to you. A question that I was interested about is, you know, when we talked about the rise in antisemitism, I’ve always kind of been interested to know how would you advise, especially for us today, like approaching it, because I thought about how the problem with antisemitism, it just seems that it's so prevailing among multiple groups, whether it's with white supremacist, or, like radical extremists that might claim to represent Islam, or when it comes to, say like people like in the far right, or far left groups. And I feel you figure there's kind of seems to be a stigma where people who, you know, they kind of tie support to Israel, either, whether you're for or against this, and I kind of feel as if it kind of like, leads to a lot of gray areas and why I would ask your opinion on this.
Dr. Kasimow: So as I said, I'm very aware of racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia. As I said, it is difficult for me to say what specific action or work you could take, different people are in different situations, and can do different things, but the one thing we can't do, if we have the opportunity not to be silent, then we shouldn't be silent. That is really the great danger. So actually, when you when you think of a few of the major Holocaust survivors, and what they wrote, the word that stands out for me from people like Heschel, Elie Wiesel, the one word that really stands out for me is, for them, the greatest sin is indifference. If there's anything at all that we could do is not to be indifferent. I'm thinking about the prophet Amos, because both both Heschel and Martin Luther King quoted the prophet Amos in their talk in January 1963, [he said] to have concern for the poor, the widow, the orphan and so on, and whenever the opportunity occurs to us, to be of some consolation to someone, we must try to do whatever we can.
Unknown Speaker: No, I understand. The only reason why I was saying this is because I mean, I feel that some of the issues, especially when, you know, with 2020, with the protests that were happening in response to like racism and police brutality or so, it just kind of felt like it just started to be noticed, especially among these groups, antisemitism amongst their midst. It was unfortunate whether like, even among like, say, the Woman's March that was in 2017, there were some strains there, or just as far as like, even among segments in the Black Lives Matter Movement, where it kind of just runs counterintuitive, you know, to like, the main message, where it's like, you know, quality and really standing up against bigotry and hate or so, that it kind of feels as if now it just seems more political because people say support for Israel. I think to myself that this just now becomes a one-side issue, its just kind of one dimensional thinking from people, or just acting in bad faith.
Dr. Kasimow: Yes, yes. So I hear your statement. Is there a question?
Unknown Speaker: Yes, I always kind of wonder, what would you say, for say someone like me, I might think that we should have more of a national conversation on this, a more honest conversation the same way we should be doing about race or, you know, police brutality, especially the whole topic on qualified immunity.
Dr. Kasimow: Yes, although this is not my special area, there are numerous conversations going on, within Israel itself, between rabbis and imams, hundreds of organizations that you don't hear about those. You don't hear about the rabbis for human rights. Are you aware of them, for example, who are doing everything that they can to help bring about peace? And the fact is, in spite of everything, you know, sometimes there's a down in history, and we're at a real down right now, but they continue working, and they never give up. A very good example is, we just witnessed this horrible tragedy, and I was very fortunate to receive a tape from one of my students, where the priest, and the imam, and the rabbi, and how they all came together to support each other. We have to make this better known to the world.
Unknown Speaker: No, I understood. I figured also starts with just, you know, acknowledging like problems or biases to be confronted.
David Krueger: Thank you. Thank you, Harold, we’re where we need to wrap things up now, but we're really grateful that you've opened up some doors for additional conversations, and you've given us a reason to gather an incredibly diverse group of people, geographically diverse in particular, from across the globe, to engage in this conversation. We are grateful that you're calling us, again, to see ourselves as a beloved community, and being on the lookout, I think you said along the lines of, being aware, being awoken to the suffering of others around us and not ignoring it.
We thank you all for being, as Len Swidler often uses the term “Mensch,” to talk about somebody who's a true human, who kind of points us in that ethical direction of acting humanely and justly towards one another. So I thank you all. This will soon be posted to our YouTube page and you can enjoy it on your own time. But we do have one last question from Reverend Tyler, I wonder if you would be willing to unmute yourself and pose a final question?
Rev. Mark Tyler: Oh, thanks, David. I was actually trying to give you the thumbs up, but I hit the wrong thing. Let me just say that I so appreciated this conversation and thank you, Harold, for what you said. I am in Atlanta, for a conference today, and I'm sitting at the King Center, listening to this conversation near where he's buried. I just want to just tell you, it just really just gave me chills to hear you talk about Rabbi Heschel and this incredible story. So I just appreciate everything that you've done, and thank you. I'm just proud to be a part of the board for the Interfaith Dialogue Institute, and so, thank you David as well.
Dr. Kasimow: I just want to mention to you what a time it was, between the Jewish community and the African American community, during the 60s, and that Heschel was still greatly admired by so many people, and that Cornell West, one of the best known intellectuals in America, speaks of Heschel as “a soulmate, part of my heart, mind, and soul and witness.” So we have a lot of work to do. Thank you. And I'd like to thank David, and Len, and Sandi, especially, because without Len and Sandi this book would have never happened.
David Krueger: Well, thank you so much, Harold and we truly believe that the stories that you're telling, and the kind of pathway you're guiding us on will plant seeds among all of us, from wherever we are in the globe. So, thank you again, Harold and thank you all for attending. We're very grateful for your participation and we look forward to you joining us again.
Sandi Billingslea: David, can I say one thing?
David Krueger: Sure. Go ahead, Sandi.
Sandi Billingslea: This book is an important piece for everyone watching this, but it's not just you, each of you. It's important that you don't keep it a secret. Please pass on the word, to your friends, to your scholars, to anyone who can take even a piece of what Harold says, because together, all of us who have just heard Harold speak, can make a change in the world, because it's possible. But it's only possible if we share the tools that Harold has brought. So, I asked you to help us have a better world, by passing on the word to the book that he just presented, and we thank you for your support of him.
David Krueger: Thank you so much. Have a good day everyone.